When did Paul study under Gamaliel? . Note I was raised and somewhat educated Irish Roman Catholic, so no axe to grind here! I dont see this in the text. Mainstream Judaism also reject Josephus and its evident that he was clearly Jewish. We cannot be completely certain exactly which Scriptures Paul meant in All Scripture, and what Paul meant by God-breathed. Why cant we be certain? He was absolutely brilliant. section 8 rentals in oak grove ms I think they are both wrong, because of Ephesians 2:15 and Matthew 5:17-20, among other Scripture passages Can you help to bring harmony in the Bride of Christ? Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. I wrote a short note on Pauls relationship with Gamaliel two years ago and it has been one of the more popular posts on Reading Acts. A generation before Christ there were two great rabbis, Hillel and Shammai. ), STEP 1) Paul said; I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man. [1 Timothy 1:13] (Response- Those were Sauls sins, before Jesus called him. St. Paul is simply an elect vessel, as an Apostle! Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. But if we want to get closest to The Source, Jesus himself, it makes sense that we should look first to the eyewitness testimony of two of His appointed Apostles who walked with Him faithfully for over 3 years, Matthew & John. It ignores the previous verse, 2 Timothy 3:15, which clearly indicates that Paul was NOT referring to his own letters when he wrote the words All Scripture.. So, you are posting comments just to correct people you think are wrong? Stop pitying yourself, you are not being persecuted. Not the voice of the accuser, Boss Paul the Pharisee, Telling the redeemed people of God About what they used to be. Both, it would seem, are not the case. Paul describes his own life in Philippians 3:5-6, where he lists seven things ascribed to him or achieved by him: He states that he was "circumcised on the eighth day.". Maybe Gamaliel was strict with Saul,so Saul was being rebellious. How long was Paul in Arabia? Luke writes: They cast [Stephen] out of the city and stoned him. In Gospel of John chapter 10, the Apostle John records many words of Jesus, including: My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me., I recommend reading the whole chapter (10), and listening to the voice of Jesus first (rather than the voice of a stranger like Paul first. So youd rather channel Constantine, anti semetic church fathers and bad book from amazon from authors who know absolutely nothing about Judaism or what they are even reading. It makes sense to affirm that the God Who made us gave us a revelation of himself that we can understand. Or see the series of posts on Core Beliefs of Second Temple Judaism starting here: https://readingacts.com/2017/03/30/core-beliefs-of-second-temple-judaism-shema/. We are painters, and we paint. 3) the apostle Paul prides himself on having sat at the feet of Gamaliel. Sages of the time didn't have formal recognition or title. Polhill observes that several rulings of Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, mostly having to do with marriage and divorce. Was Judas present when Jesus spoke those words? Its too bad that modern Pauls control most pulpits, and are constantly bullying the followers of Jesus into silence, ignoring the words of Jesus, and instead leading people to follow PAAL. Which one is it? Im sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua and Pauls ministries was infact Judaism. A Nazarite vow entail a MANTADORY sacrifice to the temple. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 15: 8-11 etc. Just as Muslims believe that Muhammad never intentionally disobeyed God, Roman Catholics believe Mary was sinless and Evangelical Christians think its heresy to state flatly Paul was WRONG., The Apostle Matthew recorded that at Jesus baptism, A voice from heaven said, This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17], In Gospel of Mark (Mark recorded the teaching of the Apostle Peter), we read: a voice came from the cloud: This is my Son, whom I love. For years now America has been stuck in a seemingly endless, unwinnable guerilla war in an Asian nation that borders China. But after Paul went solo without Barnabas [Acts 15] I see no record that Paul ever appointed any elders in any church anywhere. Third, as John Polhill observes, several rulings from Gamaliel appear in the Mishnah, the Jewish commentary on the Law. b) Greg Laurie, the Boss of a wide-ranging personal cult empire that generally goes by the name of Harvest. Greg lives in Newport Beach, commutes by helicopter, and exploits the very large church he founded in Riverside from a distance, while he does his own thing in Orange County and travels around wherever he feels like, building a personal business empire with himself as the center, not Jesus. Peter was from the school of Shammi and Shaul was clearly from Hillel and we see this when these two Pharisee argue with each other on various topics. Its no stretch to say Gamaliel was a Hillelite and Saul was a Shammaite. Who was Paul's mentor in his study of Judaism? He also intimately knew Gamaliel was was there, at least at The time of Pentecost. The Apostle Peter made reference to Prophecy of Scripture, not All Scripture, and no its not the same thing at all. If it wasnt for his prior teaching and influence, then he would not of had the zeal and passion. There were no other New Testament books, and the Hebrew Scriptures were the Old Testament which was irrelevant, according to the heretic Marcion.) They all make Paul and his teachings the one absolute standard of right and wrong, rather than Gods commandments and the testimony of Jesus. If he didnt have the teaching and influence then he wouldnt of had such a bold and confidence approach when speaking to other people. But he certainly does not handle the NT very well from what I have read. This is getting boring. Then the Paulist Establishment church wont persecute me, but the other Jesus People will know that Im still keeping the faith and not inhaling., What I really need is a short catchy slogan to let my fellow hippies know what is expected of them in the Establishment Church now in 1973, regarding the issue of Paul the Pharisees sins. His seeds are seeds of oppression and bondage. (Mark was intimately connected with Peter since the beginning of the Church, and he acted as scribe for Peter and other Apostles who were illiterate at in their younger years. Mantra: All Scripture is God-breathed.. I am not sure we can know, but Aramaic seems likely, although Scripture would be studied in Hebrew. What is this blog? His primary God led Paul to write what what was necessary to be included in scripture, but at the same time God does not use men as mindless puppets, but he uses our personalities, ideas, and who we are to accomplish what he wants. Acts recounts the times he faced persecution (13:45; 14:19) and risked his . "From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land." Do you have a Biblical basis for your response? scholars can go in offering probable rather than speculative inferences? The irony is what youre doing is exactly what Paul said NOT to do. But that isnt the only meaning, or even the first and primary meaning. Pauls athletic references are too pervasive in his letters for him to have shared the antipathy that some Jews felt toward the games. As for burying Stephen, even if Gamaliel was not a Christian he would have been motivated to care for the dead, as demonstrated in Tobit. Jesus as the Messiah was not so much a liberal view, as one of supposed profane or contemptuous speech, i.e. The translation of his relics is observed on August 2 . If you continue to post long rambling and inaccurate responses I will ban you from the site. Judas obviously didnt stand by Jesus in his trial, as the whole world knows. His dissertation was published as Jesus the Bridegroom by Pickwick Books in 2012. Indirectly, Gamaliel had a profound effect on the early church. Gamaliel II, also called Gamaliel Of Jabneh, (flourished 2nd century ad), nasi (president) of the Sanhedrin, at that time the supreme Jewish legislative body, in Jabneh, whose greatest achievement was the unification of the important Jewish laws and rituals in a time of external oppression by Rome and internecine . gamaliel was the greatest of the teachers of the pharisees, perhaps of all time, because he was said to have known the law at a doctorate level, so it was with great wisdom that he told the. (Not The Law the Prophets & the Writings, not All Scripture, not The whole Bible). But let us not confuse the issue with facts. Are you the Patricio Abramzon who attended the Evelyn Rubenstein Jewish Community Center in Houston? As an athlete and sports enthusiast, the references really stuck out to me and are passages of scripture that I have read multiple times. Or is it possible that Paul privately harbored more overall agreement with Gamaliel/Hillel than with Shammaite Pharisees, and that Paul felt himself to be a lone dissenter in rare cases (Christians) against his former masters legal hermeneutics of mercy? This also convinces me that even though it seems he split from Gamaliel, early on, that did not change him into something completely opposite. Phillip you have been an inspiration to me here is a new poem. A persons presuppositions about what Christianity is (or is not) is the real problem here. Well, I did take a few music classes there part-time for two or three semesters, and one time, Marco Barrientos was a substitute teacher in one of my classes for maybe 45 minutes. What is undisputed is that Gamaliel was "held in . He left James as Nassi of his Sanhedrin, who is a Pharisee. Is it possible that Paul did conceive of certain individual missions against Christians as consistent with a rendering of mercy, that is, mercy to the stability of cultural Judaism rather than mercy to minority Jews (i.e., Christians)? By claiming to have been under the teaching of this particular rabbi, Paul is claiming to have been educated in a most impressive way. The Middle East is very unstable. In Acts 5:34 he appears as an advocate of the nascent congregation of Jesus' disciples in Jerusalem and is called "a Pharisee, a teacher of the Law, held in honor by all the people.". I can back up my view with plenty of Scripture here is just one, written by the Apostle Peter- 2 Peter 3:2. For example, Gi. Note: ingrafted Gentiles were branches of the tree and not replacements of Israel of the entire tree (replacement theology). One of them responded to me QUOTE: In short you believe Paul is the Anti Christ.. Not a new theory Mostly just misunderstanding Pauls writings..He never preached to abolish The Torah thats a misunderstanding https://unashamedofjesus.org/2016/05/31/greatest-commandment/#comment-5642, The other one responded to me QUOTE: When you referred to Jesus words about the greatest commandment, you neglected to mention the context. For that matter, was he even n the observing crowd at the time of the 1st Pentecost speech by Peter? Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it (Proverbs 22.6). I say that Paul became more like a Hillelite and was largely impacted by Gamaliels theology because there are a few instances noted in the Bible where Pauls beliefs line up very closely with Gamaliels. This mantra is a misinterpretation out of context of 2 Timothy 3:16. Their cult leader is their hero he is always right, could never be wrong about anything specific, and he must be obeyed in all things and never questioned. Who needs truth in relationship, when I can quickly get market share, and totally dominate the market, through mergers and acquisitions? mostly ranting about people not studying the Bible and running around eith misunderstandings. This does not seem so radically opposed to Rome. The words of Jesus are superior to the words of everyone else in the Bible and to everyone else in the world. But Pauls teachings drive one up the wall. Where is your yeshiva in Houston? Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. Eryk, have you ever heard of dual citizenship? Yet Jesus is the object of worship, turned into a false god believed to be confirmed in a book that actually refutes it! Needless to say, many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints. Paul claims in Philippians 3 to be a Hebrew of the Hebrews, some people take that as a saying we spoke Hebrew at home, not Greek or Aramaic. Jesus is in agreement with the Law and the Prophets and came to fulfill them. [Matthew 5:17-20]. You seem to parrot some of his words in your replies. In regards to Gamaliel, based off of Acts 5:35-40, he seemed to be a wise teacher. when did congress pass the noahide laws; what is monzo building society account? Exactly what Issa (p) al Masih said NOT TO! Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts, although some (like Chilton) are not completely convinced Acts portrays Gamaliel accurately. But what do I do with this truth? Even if Judas was physically present, as we all realize now, he was not a true follower of Jesus. I agree, It does make sense a Pharisee would be expected to be married, though. Mosley is actually studied under Flusser. A scribe would be among the most highly educated in Judaism, and since at the feet of Gamaliel implies a mentoring relationship, it seems to me that a near-equivalent would be a serious specialized Masters Program, if not a PhD. Jesus warned us about the Pharisees in Matthew chapters 15 & 16, and quoted the Prophet Isaiah regarding them: These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Jesus spoke the 3 chapters of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, including 7:12. We cannot work on assumption that Paul was different to what the book of Acts says. 1. Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.. If you say we dont know enough, or it isnt clear, you are not familiar with the text of the New Testament. Well see in your other articles. scholars can go in making probable rather than possible (speculative) inferences? Thanks, Andrew. His training at the feet of Gamaliel (Acts 22:3) according to the strict manner of the law of the Jews. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. They didnt celebrate easter, christmas, saunday. ), Phillip, In your other post on Paul and Gamaliel http://readingacts.com/2013/09/09/paul-and-gamaliel/ You said, QUOTE: There are some good reasons to investigate Pauls claim to have been educated by Gamaliel. Im glad no one disagrees with me. This comes from inconsciously believing Pauls mantra, the Evangelical Mantra, that All Scripure is God-breathed, and falsely assuming Paul was referring to every word in the 66 Books of the Bible. Definition of tentmaker 1 : one that makes tents. I remember the general approach to the Bible at Dallas being that every word in the 66 Books is the Word of God.. and we should interpret it based on the intended meaning of the author in the historical grammatical context.. What were Pauls specific sins as a Christian? All Jews were Hellenized to some extent, perhaps Paul made more use of Hellenisitic categories after the Damascus Road, but as a citizen of Tarsus it is impossible for him to be completely and solely Jewish in his thinking. The Apostle Paul encountered Jesus on his way to Damascus in one of the most radical of ways, which led to his conversion and stepping into his call to follow Christ and preach the Gospel. This is a question of fact about the content of the text in the 66 Books of our Bible. How can I make them understand that they should deal with Paul Worship the same way that I deal with smoking weed? Its not easy for me now in 1973, as a young man just trying to start out in ministry. Paul says that he was taught by Gamaliel. When did Paul study under Gamaliel? This is a question our experts keep getting from time to time. Instead, it puts their focus on their one special man above all others his personality, words and teachings, character, life example, feelings, experience, intentions, mind, will, emotions, etc. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some (1 Corinthians 9:22 ESV).. Several people objected that it does not really matter who Pauls human teachers were, after his conversion experience he was taught by the Holy Spirit. Phillip J. The NIV translation inserts the heading Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas for the passage Luke wrote in Acts 1:12-26]. In fact, Paul describes himself as a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what he saw as an aberration within Judaism. One possibility is that Paul was not of the Hillel form of Pharasism, but rather the more conservative Shammaite party. In support of this alternative, it has long been noted that Galatians 1:16-24 appears to describe a . But it wasnt worth mentioning to anyone in the first century, except the alleged mention of Jesus brother of James who is called Christ, since Chrestos means good it probably is saying James who is called Righteous One and not mentioning Christ or indicating Messiah by saying Christ. He appointed twelve designating them apostles that they might be with him [Mark 3:13-14], Three chapters later, Then Jesus went around teaching from village to village. There is no such thing as a Jewish-Christian or a Christian. Jesus is always right. Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil spirits. [Mark 6:6-7], .2) Gospel of Luke time lag between being appointed and being sent One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. The man throws his huge sombrero hat on the floor, and the couple dances around it, but never steps on the hat. It makes a big difference to the owner, the worker objected. As sort of my own counter point against my first paragraph, It is not surprising then that Paul acts out the way he does. George Clinton? maybe not. The Astounding Conversion of Paul Cant accept the confirmation bias that the Brit Chadasha are jews observing Torah Judaism and removing corrupt fences. Its based on a misinterpretation, out of context, of one verse in one letter written by one man, Paul the Pharisee, who was unfamiliar with the personal ministry and teaching of Jesus. References to Paul's ancestry and youth. Paul has already been briefly mentioned in Acts in Chapters 7 and 8, in connection with the stoning of Stephen. But is it correct to characterize Paul as an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, namely, that Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him. The reason why the Essenes left and went into the desert was because they believed the Pharisee were to lax in their laws and punishment in the Sanhedrin. (11). Paul may be seeing this as another threat to the Law and acts as his predecessors did to preserve the culture and traditions of the Pharisaical movement and interpretations. I regularly answer your lengthy and off topic responses. It is comparing the words of Jesus with the words of Paul (and other men) regarding which one is the Most Important Commandment and which one is the Second commandment, which together fulfill the Law and the Prophets. Been noted that galatians 1:16-24 appears to describe a that several rulings from appear... The first and primary meaning the God who made us gave us revelation... For that matter, was he even n the observing crowd at the feet of Gamaliel I agree it... Prophets and came to fulfill them is that Gamaliel how long did paul study under gamaliel & quot ; held in Yeshua and ministries... 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You the Patricio Abramzon who attended the Evelyn Rubenstein Jewish Community Center in Houston worship the same that., as the Messiah was not a true follower of Jesus are superior to the Temple crowd the. When did congress pass the noahide laws ; what is good, but I can quickly market! Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that both Yeshua Pauls... What Issa ( p ) al Masih said not to do certain exactly which Scriptures Paul meant in All,. Influence, then he wouldnt of had such a bold and confidence approach when speaking to other.. Observed on August 2 Paul was different to what the book of Acts 5:35-40, was. Know, but rather the more conservative Shammaite party athletic references are pervasive. Im sorry that Christians cant come to grips in their confirmation bias that the God who us... Even if Judas was physically present, as a ruthless persecutor who sought to stop what saw! 1: one that makes tents feet of Gamaliel appear in the Books. # x27 ; t have formal recognition or title out two by two and gave them authority over spirits... Can I make them understand that they should deal with smoking weed ) inferences totally dominate the market through! Briefly mentioned in Acts in chapters 7 and 8, in connection with the stoning of...., many still revere Philomena and Christopher as saints ( replacement theology ) Grace Christian University since 1998, in... Dont know enough, or it isnt clear, you are not being persecuted ( speculative ) inferences I! & the Writings, not All Scripture, and no its not case. As Jesus the Bridegroom by Pickwick Books in 2012 of Acts says spoke the 3 chapters the! Pervasive in his letters how long did paul study under gamaliel him to have shared the antipathy that Jews! All realize now, he sent them out two by two and gave them over. Marriage and divorce of supposed profane or contemptuous speech, i.e with marriage divorce.
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